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 The TND Armoured Fighting Vehicle Forum :: Myths and Misconseptions about A.F.V.s
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 Subject :The Challenger 2 is swapping to the German L55 Smoothbore.. 27-05-2010 13:22:39 
Bruce71
Warrant Officer Class 2
Joined: 03-02-2010 23:35:31
Posts: 145
Location: My house on planet Earth
 

In another thread in this section of the forums, I mentioned about the myth that Chobham armour was fitted to the M1 Abrams Tank. After Dave added to the post about the myth that the Leopard 2 uses composite armour (I believe it uses perforated steel laminate armour?), and after Dave suggested I add a thread on this subject to the forums, I decided to add this thread about Myths and Misconceptions.

Does anyone else know of any other commonly held misconceptions about Armoured Fighting Vehicles, that they want to share with us?
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Last Edited On: 06-08-2010 14:28:53 By TankNutDave for the Reason
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 Subject :Re:Myths and Misconseptions about A.F.V.s.. 27-05-2010 13:39:17 
TankNutDave
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Joined: 20-01-2010 02:41:08
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Yes - The Challenger 2 IS NOT GOING TO BE FITTED WITH THE GERMAN L55 smoothbore. We already use a calibre Length 55 main gun, we tried it in the hope that we could buy smoothbore ammo as its cheaper because so many countries use smoothbores as it drives down the manufacturing costs as its manufactured on mass. We will not be swapping and im bored with the fact all other sites havent updated this fact lol
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Last Edited On: 27-05-2010 13:39:56 By TankNutDave for the Reason
 Subject :Re:Myths and Misconseptions about A.F.V.s.. 27-05-2010 14:17:15 
Bruce71
Warrant Officer Class 2
Joined: 03-02-2010 23:35:31
Posts: 145
Location: My house on planet Earth
 
Not to mention that it would also cost way too much to change the chellenger 2's turret to take the one piece NATO ammo instead of the 2 piece British ammo.
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 Subject :Re:Myths and Misconseptions about A.F.V.s.. 27-05-2010 14:48:57 
Cat
Sergeant
Joined: 19-05-2010 18:27:58
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3 PIECE BRITISH AMMO   :)
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Last Edited On: 27-05-2010 14:49:57 By Cat for the Reason
 Subject :Re:Myths and Misconseptions about A.F.V.s.. 27-05-2010 15:43:20 
Bruce71
Warrant Officer Class 2
Joined: 03-02-2010 23:35:31
Posts: 145
Location: My house on planet Earth
 
Is that a myth or a correction? Am I right in thinking that the British ammo uses a seperate end cap, or is that a myth too?
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 Subject :Re:Myths and Misconseptions about A.F.V.s.. 27-05-2010 17:11:57 
TankNutDave
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Its two piece, sabot round in first followed by the Combustable Case Charge which is a big orange cylinder. Hesh goes in first followed by a satchel charge which is a thin bag with sticks of coridite ( ican spell it lol).
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 Subject :Re:Myths and Misconseptions about A.F.V.s.. 27-05-2010 17:23:15 
Bruce71
Warrant Officer Class 2
Joined: 03-02-2010 23:35:31
Posts: 145
Location: My house on planet Earth
 
Ah ha! I stand (or sit as I am right now!) corrected! I can't even remember where I read about the seperate end cap, might not have even been about the Challenger 2, any ideas?
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 Subject :Re:Myths and Misconseptions about A.F.V.s.. 27-05-2010 17:26:53 
Bruce71
Warrant Officer Class 2
Joined: 03-02-2010 23:35:31
Posts: 145
Location: My house on planet Earth
 
Never mind, I've just remembered, it was in another forum, someone was talking about putting 3 (or 5?) HESH rounds in the air at the same time, and said about loading the HESH, then the satchel charge, then the percussion cap? Is that right? Or does the satchel charge have the percussion cap built in? My memory gets a bit hazy at this time of night!!!
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 Subject :Re:Myths and Misconseptions about A.F.V.s.. 27-05-2010 17:46:31 
VickersIndependent
Lance Corporal
Joined: 09-05-2010 18:09:35
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Cost for production may be cheaper for smoothbores,but their barrel life is short and ammunition variety are low when compared to rifled guns like the L7,L11A5,or even the L30.
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 Subject :Re:Myths and Misconseptions about A.F.V.s.. 27-05-2010 21:11:08 
Cat
Sergeant
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Cr2 uses 3 piece ammo

Rounds (Hesh, APFSDS etc)

Bag charge (applicable to the round)

Vent tube (which is an electrically fired "shotgun" cartridge used to ignite the bag charge)

If i remeber correctly theres a magazine under the breech block with 14 vent tubes in it :D
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Last Edited On: 27-05-2010 21:12:47 By Cat for the Reason
 Subject :Re:Myths and Misconseptions about A.F.V.s.. 28-05-2010 07:44:14 
Bruce71
Warrant Officer Class 2
Joined: 03-02-2010 23:35:31
Posts: 145
Location: My house on planet Earth
 
Thanks for that info Cat :-) Always nice to get information/corrections from tankies in the know. Even nicer to find out that my memory wasn't all that hazy after all!! What about '3 HESH in the air at once'? Is that a myth, or is it really possible?
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 Subject :Re:Myths and Misconseptions about A.F.V.s.. 28-05-2010 08:21:56 
TankNutDave
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The vent tube magazine is inserted in the rear of the breach and has 10 TVE's in the mag. So thou yes there are 3 parts, I still say that there is only 2 part, as the operator only loads two parts per shot (round and charge), he doesnt load the third part on every shot, so thats why i call it two part.
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 Subject :Re:Myths and Misconseptions about A.F.V.s.. 28-05-2010 08:28:46 
Bruce71
Warrant Officer Class 2
Joined: 03-02-2010 23:35:31
Posts: 145
Location: My house on planet Earth
 
In other words, APFSDS has 2 parts and HESH has 3 parts, which means you're both right :-) So what about my other question, is it possible to put 3 HESH rounds in the air at once, or is that an internet myth?
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 Subject :Re:Myths and Misconseptions about A.F.V.s.. 28-05-2010 09:00:31 
TankNutDave
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Yes you can. You have to flick switch to overide the FCS so the gun doesnt ride down to the load port (index) position, then get the charges out inbetween your legs and the rounds stacked up on the PDB, (shelf at the back of the turret under the round racks) so you can grab them quick. Target needs to be 3 to 4km out, and a fu*king quicker loader as HESH rounds are bloody heavy.
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 Subject :Re:Myths and Misconseptions about A.F.V.s.. 28-05-2010 09:03:51 
Cat
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Unfortunately not with the loading times (i was about 4-6 secs at my prime ) and the gunner doing corrections (if needed) plus the tank needs to settle after the recoil. Add in that HESH travels at...errr...800m per second (my memory might be abit fuzzy on that one) and you cant really do it.
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 Subject :Re:Myths and Misconseptions about A.F.V.s.. 28-05-2010 09:06:57 
TankNutDave
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 Subject :Re:Myths and Misconseptions about A.F.V.s.. 28-05-2010 09:11:42 
Admin_2ndTankie
Challenger 2
Joined: 07-03-2010 22:18:53
Posts: 93
Location: 
 
Your only supposed to put 8 in the Vent tube mags, However you can stick 10 in.. All depends on weather your commander wants to risk a possible stoppage over the extra 2 rounds he can fire before a mag change. All natures of ammunition are 3 piece. The TVE: Tube Vent Electrical, (similar size to a 7.62mm casing sealed up with no bullet) the Bag Charge.. For HESH, SH/P SMOKE natures a half size charge is used in a cloth bag (Cut vertically) On the bottom an attached bag of fine cordite to help ignite the whole charge. For APFSDS, DS/T Natures a whole charge incased in a solid orange tube is used. The Loader only has to Load the TVE Mag on the initial action drill and his subsequent loading drills include a check that the next TVE is loaded. The Spent TVE is ejected out the back of the Breach upon recoil. That is the only bi-product from Firing the main armament.
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 Subject :Re:Myths and Misconseptions about A.F.V.s.. 28-05-2010 09:15:38 
Cat
Sergeant
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The commander in that tank should be taken out and bull whipped!!! The loader had a Bag charge (the orange tube) sitting outside its container!! Major fuck up there, theres a reason that the bag charges are stored in the correct place...if a round had hit that bag charge would have gone up or if it had slipped under that gun/caught in the traverse it would have been useless.
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Last Edited On: 28-05-2010 09:17:48 By Cat for the Reason
 Subject :Re:Myths and Misconseptions about A.F.V.s.. 28-05-2010 09:18:53 
Admin_2ndTankie
Challenger 2
Joined: 07-03-2010 22:18:53
Posts: 93
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Agreed charges should be stowed properly... Its the Operators Turret and for speed in static to static/moving targets having 1 or 2 charges out is a must :)
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 Subject :Re:Myths and Misconseptions about A.F.V.s.. 28-05-2010 09:20:47 
Cat
Sergeant
Joined: 19-05-2010 18:27:58
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No...charges should not be left out simple as that...if an operator cant get the charges out of the bins fast enough...then he should practice alot more
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